If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens
I am an experienced traveller, but I'd like your advice for achieving
what I recognize to be a very compressed schedule. *Based on my past experiences I believe this two-week schedule is possible, except for the things I do not know, which is where rte comes in. *What do you think? The anchors are a visit to England to visit Shakespearean sites, and Athens to see the Parthenon. *Driving the Alps in general is important, and crossing the Stelvio Pass is the key part of that. *If one drives through the Alps, then Venice is just waiting there for some visiting, and it is a very special place (and would have flights to Athens). Saturday - arrive in London, rent car from the airport, drive to Bath, visit Avebury, Lacock and Castle Combe along the way, visit Bath rest of day to work off jet lag Sunday - early morning Special Access Pass to visit Stonehenge, drive through Cotswolds villages, arrive at Stratford-upon-Avon and visit Shakespeare houses Monday - return car to airport, train to London, walking tour around Westminster, National Picture Gallery, get tickets for Tower Tuesday - visit Tower and Crown Jewels first thing in the morning, then visit British museum, time visit to see Shakespeare play in New Globe Wednesday - train to Paris (depending on departure schedule, perhaps visiting Tower this morning to provide more British Museum time on prior day) Thursday - visit the Louvre, go to top of Eiffel Tower Friday - go to airport and rent a car, and drive to Davos, Switzerland. *I will check to confirm I can rent a car and drive it outside the country. Saturday - cross the Stelvio Pass, drive through the Alps to Venice, drop car off at airport, arrive at hotel Sunday - St. Mark's, Doge's Palace, walking tour, walking tour at night Monday - Breakfast at Nico's Gelateria, go to airport (yes just one day in Venice), flight to Athens, rent car from airport and drive to a nice hotel I found south of Corinth on the Saronic Gulf Sunday - visit Ancient Corinth, drive to Ancient Olympia (options: the fast Gulf of Corinth coast road around to Pirgos and then head in east, or take the highway toward Tripolis and somehow take those tiny winding roads across the center of the peninsula?) Monday - visit Ancient Olympia, drive to Ancient Delphi Tuesday - visit Ancient Delphi, drive to Thermopylae, Marathon, Sounion Wednesday - drop car off at airport, bus into Athens, see non-Acropolis sites, e.g. the big Archeological Museum Thursday - early morning arrival at Acropolis to visit it, perhaps more Acheological Museum Friday - flight to Frankfurt, flight to USA Sunday - arrive home -- Dan Stephenson http://stepheda.com Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too) |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens
On Sun, 31 Mar 2013, Dan Stephenson wrote:
I am an experienced traveller, but I'd like your advice for achieving what I recognize to be a very compressed schedule. * definitely something I won't do (surely not by car, could be fun by train) Driving the Alps in general is important, and crossing the Stelvio Pass is the key part of that. *If one drives through the Alps, then Venice is just waiting there You do not tell us WHEN you plan that. You should check that Stelvio (and possibly some other passes) are open. I guess they are currently still closed by snow. Not sure why you have chosen exactly Stelvio among all possible Alp passes. Also you do not tell us details on the routes. To make the Stelvio you could either get to Bormio from Zernez and Livigno, and then cross the Stelvio northwards, then drive to Bolzano and all the way down to Venice. Or you could drive from Zernez to Prato allo Stelvio via val Mustair and then cross the Stelvio southwards to Bormio, then drive to Ponte di Legno, Edolo and down Val Camonica to Brescia and then plain motorway to Venice (that sort of the route google maps suggests for Davos-Bormio-Venice, except that it skips Stelvio and does Davos-Zernez-Livigno-Bormio !). Apparently for Davos-Zernez it suggests the Vereina rail tunnel. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens
Dan Stephenson wrote on Mar 31, 2013:
*Driving the Alps in general is important, and crossing the Stelvio Pass is the key part of that. *If one drives through the Alps, then Venice is just waiting there for some visiting, and it is a very special place (and would have flights to Athens). I have twice driven from Davos to Merano en route to Venice, hoping to do the Stelvio pass. The first time was in late May. Many of the Alpine passes were open by that time, but Stelvio was still closed. The second time was in mid June. The pass was open but the weather was overcast with occasional rain, and the cloud base was down to about 3000 ft. There's no point in driving over an Alpine pass in the cloud - it's dangerous, slow and you can't see anything, so we aborted again. -- Mike Lane UK North Yorkshire mike_lane at mac dot com |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens
Mike Lane wrote on Apr 2, 2013:
Dan Stephenson wrote on Mar 31, 2013: *Driving the Alps in general is important, and crossing the Stelvio Pass is the key part of that. *If one drives through the Alps, then Venice is just waiting there for some visiting, and it is a very special place (and would have flights to Athens). I have twice driven from Davos to Merano en route to Venice, hoping to do the Stelvio pass. The first time was in late May. Many of the Alpine passes were open by that time, but Stelvio was still closed. The second time was in mid June. The pass was open but the weather was overcast with occasional rain, and the cloud base was down to about 3000 ft. There's no point in driving over an Alpine pass in the cloud - it's dangerous, slow and you can't see anything, so we aborted again. Oh, by the way, there's a web-cam showing current conditions on the Stelvio pass he http://webcam.popso.it/cm/pages/Serv...IT/IDPagina/42 -- Mike Lane UK North Yorkshire mike_lane at mac dot com |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens
On 2013-03-31, Dan Stephenson wrote:
I am an experienced traveller, but I'd like your advice for achieving what I recognize to be a very compressed schedule. Â*Based on my past experiences I believe this two-week schedule is possible, except for the things I do not know, which is where rte comes in. Â*What do you think? I'm surprised you'll attempt this, given your travel record. It's the kind of schedule people who expects never to travel again makes. The anchors are a visit to England to visit Shakespearean sites, and Athens to see the Parthenon. Â*Driving the Alps in general is important, and crossing the Stelvio Pass is the key part of that. Â*If one drives through the Alps, then Venice is just waiting there for some visiting, and it is a very special place (and would have flights to Athens). Saturday - arrive in London, rent car from the airport, drive to Bath, visit Avebury, Lacock and Castle Combe along the way, visit Bath rest of day to work off jet lag A lot of moving around for someone coming off a transatlantic flight. But you've been in that situation before and must know your limits. Sunday - early morning Special Access Pass to visit Stonehenge, drive through Cotswolds villages, arrive at Stratford-upon-Avon and visit Shakespeare houses Monday - return car to airport, train to London, walking tour around Westminster, National Picture Gallery, get tickets for Tower Tuesday - visit Tower and Crown Jewels first thing in the morning, then visit British museum, time visit to see Shakespeare play in New Globe Wednesday - train to Paris (depending on departure schedule, perhaps visiting Tower this morning to provide more British Museum time on prior day) Thursday - visit the Louvre, go to top of Eiffel Tower Any particular reason you're including Paris here? If it's your first visit, it's _way_ too short, if not why bother? Friday - go to airport and rent a car, and drive to Davos, Switzerland. Â*I will check to confirm I can rent a car and drive it outside the country. Renting at airports are usually more expensive than in the city. Also keep an eye on the included km. 300km/day is standard in Germany, don't know how it is in France. Saturday - cross the Stelvio Pass, drive through the Alps to Venice, drop car off at airport, arrive at hotel Here you're going to be hit hard by the one way fee. Returning a rental car in *another country* is expensive. I would drop Paris, fly from London to Milano (or similar) and rent the car there. Should save you a ton of money *and* free up some time for alpine driving. Stelvio should be crossed from the north - that's where the hairpins are. Unfortunately the place is crammed with cyclists, so it's hard to build a good rythm as you have to come to a full stop at every turn. Or that's how it was last summer. I would like to go back, but it would have to be at a time of year/day where it's actually possible to drive. One of our resident Tims is an expert on these passes. Hopefully he's still around. Friday - flight to Frankfurt, flight to USA Sunday - arrive home Saturday, surely. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 23:20:53 +0000 (UTC), Jesper Lauridsen
wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dan Stephenson wrote: Saturday - cross the Stelvio Pass, drive through the Alps to Venice, drop car off at airport, arrive at hotel Here you're going to be hit hard by the one way fee. Returning a rental car in *another country* is expensive. I tried Europcar with your data ( dropoff in Mestre; don't see any point in going to an airport). Prices start at $700 for the smallest vehicle class. I'm a bit miffed that prices are lower when I claim to be American than they are when I go with Danish. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens
On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 10:49:02 +0200, Jesper Lauridsen
wrote: On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 23:20:53 +0000 (UTC), Jesper Lauridsen wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dan Stephenson wrote: Saturday - cross the Stelvio Pass, drive through the Alps to Venice, drop car off at airport, arrive at hotel Here you're going to be hit hard by the one way fee. Returning a rental car in *another country* is expensive. I tried Europcar with your data ( dropoff in Mestre; don't see any point in going to an airport). Prices start at $700 for the smallest vehicle class. I'm a bit miffed that prices are lower when I claim to be American than they are when I go with Danish. That seems to be related to where the bill is presented and what the local tax rates are. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens
Dan Stephenson:
I am an experienced traveller, but I'd like your advice for achieving what I recognize to be a very compressed schedule... Jesper Lauridsen: I'm surprised you'll attempt this, given your travel record. It's the kind of schedule people who expects never to travel again makes. Yeah. Saturday - arrive in London, rent car from the airport, drive to Bath, visit Avebury, Lacock and Castle Combe along the way, visit Bath rest of day to work off jet lag A lot of moving around for someone coming off a transatlantic flight. Seems to me that time should be allowed for a hospital visit following the car crash due to falling asleep from jet lag. But you've been in that situation before and must know your limits. It sounds as though "visit" might mean "drive past". In my experience driving *anywhere* in Britain takes 50-100% longer than you might expect. I hope the airport is Heathrow, at least, this being on the correct side of London. Friday - go to airport and rent a car, and drive to Davos, Switzerland. I will check to confirm I can rent a car and drive it outside the country. Renting at airports are usually more expensive than in the city. Also keep an eye on the included km. 300km/day is standard in Germany, don't know how it is in France. As there are high-speed trains from Paris to Switzerland, it might also be preferable to do the first part of the trip by train and then switch to a car at a suitable point. Friday - flight to Frankfurt, flight to USA Sunday - arrive home Saturday, surely. I would have thought Friday. Due to the time zones, most westbound transatlantic flights are daylight trips. -- Mark Brader | "Earthmen learned how to send ships through space, and | so initiated human history, though I suppose there was Toronto | previous history on Earth." -- Jack Vance, "Emphyrio" My text in this article is in the public domain. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens
"Dan Stephenson" wrote in message news:2013033109534132948-stephedanospam@maccom... I am an experienced traveller, but I'd like your advice for achieving what I recognize to be a very compressed schedule. Based on my past experiences I believe this two-week schedule is possible, except for the things I do not know, which is where rte comes in. What do you think? The anchors are a visit to England to visit Shakespearean sites, and Athens to see the Parthenon. Driving the Alps in general is important, and crossing the Stelvio Pass is the key part of that. If one drives through the Alps, then Venice is just waiting there for some visiting, and it is a very special place (and would have flights to Athens). Saturday - arrive in London, rent car from the airport, drive to Bath, visit Avebury, Lacock and Castle Combe along the way, visit Bath rest of day to work off jet lag Sunday - early morning Special Access Pass to visit Stonehenge, drive through Cotswolds villages, arrive at Stratford-upon-Avon and visit Shakespeare houses Monday - return car to airport, train to London, walking tour around Westminster, National Picture Gallery, get tickets for Tower Tuesday - visit Tower and Crown Jewels first thing in the morning, then visit British museum, time visit to see Shakespeare play in New Globe Wednesday - train to Paris (depending on departure schedule, perhaps visiting Tower this morning to provide more British Museum time on prior day) Thursday - visit the Louvre, go to top of Eiffel Tower Friday - go to airport and rent a car, and drive to Davos, Switzerland. I will check to confirm I can rent a car and drive it outside the country. Saturday - cross the Stelvio Pass, drive through the Alps to Venice, drop car off at airport, arrive at hotel Sunday - St. Mark's, Doge's Palace, walking tour, walking tour at night Monday - Breakfast at Nico's Gelateria, go to airport (yes just one day in Venice), flight to Athens, rent car from airport and drive to a nice hotel I found south of Corinth on the Saronic Gulf Sunday - visit Ancient Corinth, drive to Ancient Olympia (options: the fast Gulf of Corinth coast road around to Pirgos and then head in east, or take the highway toward Tripolis and somehow take those tiny winding roads across the center of the peninsula?) Monday - visit Ancient Olympia, drive to Ancient Delphi Tuesday - visit Ancient Delphi, drive to Thermopylae, Marathon, Sounion Wednesday - drop car off at airport, bus into Athens, see non-Acropolis sites, e.g. the big Archeological Museum Thursday - early morning arrival at Acropolis to visit it, perhaps more Acheological Museum Friday - flight to Frankfurt, flight to USA Sunday - arrive home -- Dan Stephenson http://stepheda.com Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too) Traffic going west out of London on a Saturday morning can be very congested from late June to early September (and I don't just mean the immediate area around London). Add something like 50% to any times websites may be giving you. On peak days in late July and August you could easily add 100%. Bath to Amesbury early on a Sunday should be doable in just over an hour. Don't follow the A36 all the way to the A303, cut off across through Shrewton (but watch for speed traps). By the time you leave Stonehenge people out for a Sunday will be around plan on at least 2 hours to get up to the Cotswolds. The houses in Stratford are some way apart. If you aren't in Stratford by lunch time I doubt you'll get around them all (even at your light speed). Unless you have very specific interests and plan to miss a lot of the museums to home in on one or two exhibits I'd say your allowance for visits is obscenely short and gives the impression of someone who simply wants to be able to brag about having been there. These are repositories of things you won't find anywhere else and need time to be appreciated. Why pay extra fees to hire a car at a Paris airport? Wouldn't a town office be a better deal? By the way are you planning a Jeremy Clarkson style Top Gear race on this section? |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
London-Paris-Alps-Venice-Athens
On 2013-04-02 04:09:35 -0500, Giovanni Drogo said:
On Sun, 31 Mar 2013, Dan Stephenson wrote: I am an experienced traveller, but I'd like your advice for achieving what I recognize to be a very compressed schedule. * definitely something I won't do (surely not by car, could be fun by train) Well I like to do scenic driving Driving the Alps in general is important, and crossing the Stelvio Pass is the key part of that. *If one drives through the Alps, then Venice is just waiting there You do not tell us WHEN you plan that. You should check that Stelvio (and possibly some other passes) are open. I guess they are currently still closed by snow. That is a good point. Living in Texas USA, I am not accustomed to snowy climes. I'll have to factor that in, and perhaps go a little later. Not sure why you have chosen exactly Stelvio among all possible Alp passes. Also you do not tell us details on the routes. The routes aren't so critical, I'll decide the exact route en-route, I was just checking thematic plausablity to reach Davos from Paris in a day, and Davos to Venice in a day. To make the Stelvio you could either get to Bormio from Zernez and Livigno, and then cross the Stelvio northwards, then drive to Bolzano and all the way down to Venice. Or you could drive from Zernez to Prato allo Stelvio via val Mustair and then cross the Stelvio southwards to Bormio, then drive to Ponte di Legno, Edolo and down Val Camonica to Brescia and then plain motorway to Venice (that sort of the route google maps suggests for Davos-Bormio-Venice, except that it skips Stelvio and does Davos-Zernez-Livigno-Bormio !). Apparently for Davos-Zernez it suggests the Vereina rail tunnel. From my recollection travelling through that area before, it's ALL beautimous. So I would ask if there are any glaciers that one can drive to and walk someone close to the face? That would definitely shape my route. Any ideas? -- Dan Stephenson http://stepheda.com Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too) |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Review: Crystal Serenity - Venice - Athens | Mark (SF) | Cruises | 12 | July 23rd, 2010 01:45 AM |
Venice, Athens, Istanbul - Your Fave Suggestions? | Mark (SF) | Cruises | 10 | May 4th, 2010 02:02 AM |
Hostels in London, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Munich, Venice, Rome | Charlie Pink | Europe | 4 | February 26th, 2004 04:54 PM |
Venice to Athens on the Royal Princess | rs | Cruises | 0 | November 14th, 2003 07:22 PM |
London<->Rome<->Athens<->London | tile | Europe | 0 | September 16th, 2003 12:08 PM |