Lissabon or Porto?

"RogerW" kirjoitti
glegroups.com...
Given that many of the locals would understand it, is speaking Spanish
in Portugal considered a bad thing?

I wouldn't exactly say it's a bad thing, but Portuguese people are more
receptive to English speakers than they are to Spanish speakers.

I believe this is because the Spanish tend to be a little arrogant and
just assume that they are going to be understood, whereas English is
probably the most accepted tourist language and will be easily
understood in restaurants, hotels, bars, etc.

There is an Estonian rally driver who used to speak in Finnish at interviews
to the Finnish media. Nowadays the prick refuses to do so but the
communication must take place in "English".

Volker Hetzer wrote:

How long it this trip? I would split between Lisbon & Estoril.
Two to three nights. Not sure yet. But from a look at google maps
it's more or less the same area.

It is, just some minutes by train.

Greetings from Cologne

Andreas

Let is be knownst that on Wed, 3 Jan 2007 23:42:23 +0000 (UTC),
Wolfgang May writted:

RogerW wrote:
Given that many of the locals would understand it, is speaking Spanish
in Portugal considered a bad thing?

I wouldn't exactly say it's a bad thing, but Portuguese people are more
receptive to English speakers than they are to Spanish speakers.

I believe this is because the Spanish tend to be a little arrogant
and just assume that they are going to be understood,

Plus the feeling that people addressing them in Spanish probably
see Portugal just as a small annex to Spain which "naturally" must
have the same language.

I kinda thought that might be the situation.

whereas English is
probably the most accepted tourist language and will be easily
understood in restaurants, hotels, bars, etc.

Only in the touristic places, tourist hotels etc. Bus drivers,
waiters in smaller restaurants, people working in malls and shops
usually don't speak english.

If you know English and Spanish, starting english, and if they don't
understand, switching to Spanish, or trying to communicate by using
Italian or French words etc is OK and often helps because these
languages are more similar to portuguese.

OK, so just use a mish-mash of English and different Latin languages.
It worked a treat in Corsica!
--
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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--

mini Mini wrote:

[]
No. Generally it's OK if you are Spanish & speak Spanish in Portugal. It
those who are not Spanish who shouldn't speak Spanish. This is because
there are many people who actully think Spanish is spoken in Portugal.

That's useful info. I know that my partner (Peruvian) found speaking
Spanish fine when in Portugal. I'm visiting in May with him and I
thought I'd try that too, But while my Spanish is OK, I won't pass for a
native speaker. I'll stick to English, and maybe a bit of Portuguese if
I can pick it up. Perhaps when they know that you know they don't speak
Spanish, it's also OK? I was at a dinner party recently where only
Spanish and Portuguese (people from the Azores) was spoken, with most
people only speaking one or the other. I was pleasantly surprised at how
well it seemed to go. Then again the main subject was food, and it was
very good indeed!

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
(don't email yahoo address) usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

mini Mini wrote:
Deeply Filled Mortician wrote
in :

Let is be knownst that on Wed, 3 Jan 2007 23:42:23 +0000 (UTC),
Wolfgang May writted:

If you know English and Spanish, starting english, and if they don't
understand, switching to Spanish, or trying to communicate by using
Italian or French words etc is OK and often helps because these
languages are more similar to portuguese.

After English, French is the next language to try. After that take out your
dictionary.

This is not consistent with what my portuguese colleagues recommended,
and with my own experiences. If English does not work, Spanish is the
next choice. The main difference is in the pronounciation (which is
not the case for Brasilian Portuguese that is like European Portuguese
without the "Russian Accent" pronounciation), and communication
between a Portuguese talking Portuguese and a Spaniard talking Spanish
works quite well. But, as I know neither Portuguese nor Spanish, I
had to go for French or Italian. My French is much better than my
Italian, but communication was easier when I used my very restricted
Italian. So I would put it in the order Eng - Esp - It -Fra.

Wolfgang

mini Mini wrote:

(David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote in
:
[]
That's useful info. I know that my partner (Peruvian) found speaking
Spanish fine when in Portugal. I'm visiting in May with him and I
thought I'd try that too, But while my Spanish is OK, I won't pass for
a native speaker. I'll stick to English, and maybe a bit of Portuguese
if I can pick it up. Perhaps when they know that you know they don't
speak Spanish, it's also OK? I was at a dinner party recently where
only Spanish and Portuguese (people from the Azores) was spoken, with
most people only speaking one or the other. I was pleasantly surprised
at how well it seemed to go. Then again the main subject was food, and
it was very good indeed!


Yes. I think you've got it. If we know that you are native Spanish
speaking that's fine. Generally Portuguese can understand Spanish quite
well. As an Anglophone, you should really NOT speak Spanish! I can't
count the number of Anglophones (UK & US) who think that Spanish is
spoken in Portugal! (Well, not just Anglophones. I had a Russian tell me
he didn't speak Spanish when I told him i was Portuguese!)

Speak English or have your partner do the talking. Between the two of
you you shouldn't have a problem.

I'm surprised the Spanish people understood the Azoreans! I'm told we
speak kinda funny! ;o)

I wouldn't have noticed the accent! I remember once trying to talk to
a Brazilian when he didn't speak any English, and that seemed hard!
Seemed easier at the dinner party. I just had to make sure I didn't tell
the hosts I found the meal exquisite!

Becareful when taking taxis from the Airport! Make sure you can see the
meter. Read the charges on the window, check the meter before you get
out, ask for a reciept, and count your change! Unfortunately the bad taxi
drivers give the good ones a bad name.

We tend to only take taxis when absolutely necessary, but thanks for the
heads-up! Maybe more questions a little nearer the time, but looking
forward to the trip. Probably 4 days in Lisbon, then 4 days somewhere
accessible (thinking train) further down, probably on the Algarve.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
(don't email yahoo address) usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

mini Mini wrote:
Wolfgang May wrote in
:

mini Mini wrote:
Deeply Filled Mortician
wrote in :

Let is be knownst that on Wed, 3 Jan 2007 23:42:23 +0000 (UTC),
Wolfgang May writted:

If you know English and Spanish, starting english, and if they
don't understand, switching to Spanish, or trying to communicate by
using Italian or French words etc is OK and often helps because
these languages are more similar to portuguese.

After English, French is the next language to try. After that take
out your dictionary.

This is not consistent with what my portuguese colleagues recommended,
and with my own experiences. If English does not work, Spanish is the
next choice. The main difference is in the pronounciation (which is
not the case for Brasilian Portuguese that is like European Portuguese
without the "Russian Accent" pronounciation), and communication
between a Portuguese talking Portuguese and a Spaniard talking Spanish
works quite well. But, as I know neither Portuguese nor Spanish, I
had to go for French or Italian. My French is much better than my
Italian, but communication was easier when I used my very restricted
Italian. So I would put it in the order Eng - Esp - It -Fra.

Wolfgang


Wow. That's amazing. Usually Portuguese people agree on every single
thing in the universe. I can't believe your colleagues are not in
agreement with me.

So what?
As it is appropriate that you write your opinion here, it is also
appropriate that I report what I have been told by other Portuguese
people.

My point is not whether they will be understood. It's a "political"
issue, not a langauge issue.

English-right now the "universal language", most studied in school & seen
on TV
French-the diplomatic language, previously most studied in school, etc.
Spanish- the language most people think is spoken in Portugal
Italian-Wholely irrelevant unless you are an Italian speaker.

People who are not driven by political issues, but by practical
issues may not necessarily share your opinion.

So, for NON Spanish mother tongue visitors the order should be:

From your point of view.

English-French-Dictionary-Get help-Latin-Italian-Russian-Spanish.

HTH.

Same.

Wolfgang

Let is be knownst that on 4 Jan 2007 21:28:36 +0100, mini Mini
writted:

Wolfgang May wrote in
:

mini Mini wrote:
Deeply Filled Mortician
wrote in :

Let is be knownst that on Wed, 3 Jan 2007 23:42:23 +0000 (UTC),
Wolfgang May writted:

If you know English and Spanish, starting english, and if they
don't understand, switching to Spanish, or trying to communicate by
using Italian or French words etc is OK and often helps because
these languages are more similar to portuguese.

After English, French is the next language to try. After that take
out your dictionary.

This is not consistent with what my portuguese colleagues recommended,
and with my own experiences. If English does not work, Spanish is the
next choice. The main difference is in the pronounciation (which is
not the case for Brasilian Portuguese that is like European Portuguese
without the "Russian Accent" pronounciation), and communication
between a Portuguese talking Portuguese and a Spaniard talking Spanish
works quite well. But, as I know neither Portuguese nor Spanish, I
had to go for French or Italian. My French is much better than my
Italian, but communication was easier when I used my very restricted
Italian. So I would put it in the order Eng - Esp - It -Fra.

Wolfgang


Wow. That's amazing. Usually Portuguese people agree on every single
thing in the universe. I can't believe your colleagues are not in
agreement with me.

My point is not whether they will be understood. It's a "political"
issue, not a langauge issue.

English-right now the "universal language", most studied in school & seen
on TV
French-the diplomatic language, previously most studied in school, etc.

Today a car with French plates pulled up next to me in my village. The
driver asked me in good Italian where 'il lido' is. Well I understood
just what he wanted to know (the beach of course), but I replied
directly in English, knowing full well it would **** him off (and
indeed it had this effect!). He ignored my (in English) advice to not
park where was most convenient. I wandered down to my local cop, and
told her a froggie was trying to fregarci (pull a swifty). She laid a
wopping fine (over 100 euro) on their windscreen.

I am going to hell for sure!

Spanish- the language most people think is spoken in Portugal

I bet it's always well received outside of Portugal and Brazil.

Italian-Wholely irrelevant unless you are an Italian speaker.

Or unless you want to spend time in Albania or some neighboring
********.
--
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Let is be knownst that on Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:28:06 +0200, Markku
Grönroos writted:


"RogerW" kirjoitti
oglegroups.com...
Given that many of the locals would understand it, is speaking Spanish
in Portugal considered a bad thing?

I wouldn't exactly say it's a bad thing, but Portuguese people are more
receptive to English speakers than they are to Spanish speakers.

I believe this is because the Spanish tend to be a little arrogant and
just assume that they are going to be understood, whereas English is
probably the most accepted tourist language and will be easily
understood in restaurants, hotels, bars, etc.

There is an Estonian rally driver who used to speak in Finnish at interviews
to the Finnish media. Nowadays the prick refuses to do so but the
communication must take place in "English".

He wants to be international. Can't blame him really, English is
understood by any Finn or Estonian that matters.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Deeply Filled Mortician wrote:

Today a car with French plates pulled up next to me in my village. The
driver asked me in good Italian where 'il lido' is. Well I understood
just what he wanted to know (the beach of course), but I replied
directly in English, knowing full well it would **** him off (and
indeed it had this effect!). He ignored my (in English) advice to not
park where was most convenient. I wandered down to my local cop, and
told her a froggie was trying to fregarci (pull a swifty). She laid a
wopping fine (over 100 euro) on their windscreen.

I am going to hell for sure!


Lol...I like yer style, DFM...!!!

--
Best
Greg