Travelling to Venice from UK by car

Giovanni Drogo ha scritto:


To add cavil to cavil, Mestre and other suburbs like Marghera are built
on the mainland, and are therefore reachable by car. There is also a
belt of islands between the Lagoon and the sea (like Lido, Pellestrina
etc.) which are also part of the Municipality, and where cars can go
(once they get there with a ferry).


The topic was how to reach Venice by car, you can't do that from Lido.
You can only do that from Mestre. Don't add more confusion to people
that arrive from abroad and don't have a clear idea on how it's built.

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:20:31 +0200, Giovanni Drogo
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Last_Lizard_King_1971 wrote:

Just two mistakes, only one of the bridge was built by mussolini, the
newest, the first was built by Austrians;

As any italian of a given age should know. Anybody remembers the siege
of 1848 ?

I wasn't born yet.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

[car-free,] like all of Europe's cities.

That bit's a joke, right?

It's an in-joke.

I vaguely remember a poster who thought this was true, that we all
cycle to the monorail station and ride effortlessly into town each
morning. But Jens' lack of smiley made me wonder.

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006, B Vaughan wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:20:31 +0200, Giovanni Drogo

As any italian of a given age should know. Anybody remembers the siege
of 1848 ?

I wasn't born yet.

Me too, but you've not had school here in Italy, otherwise you'd know
this http://www.musicaememoria.com/arnald..._a_venezia.htm

Probably you learnt "one if by land two if by sea" instead.

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On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:22:57 +0200, Giovanni Drogo
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006, B Vaughan wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:20:31 +0200, Giovanni Drogo

As any italian of a given age should know. Anybody remembers the siege
of 1848 ?

I wasn't born yet.

Me too, but you've not had school here in Italy, otherwise you'd know
this http://www.musicaememoria.com/arnald..._a_venezia.htm

As poetry, it strikes me as a bit pedestrian. Sort of like Walt
Whitman's "Oh Captain", which mourned the death of Abraham Lincoln.
Not a masterpiece, let's say.


Probably you learnt "one if by land two if by sea" instead.

I think that was out of fashion by the time I went to school. We had
to memorize things like Walt Whitman, some Longfellow, some Milton,
and a good deal of Shakespeare.

I'm trying to read those books that every Italian is supposed to have
read. So far I've read "Pinocchio" (in Italian, of course), "i
Promessi Sposi", the complete short stories of Pirandello, some short
stories by Svevo, "il Gattopardo", and a few others. Also some of
Indro Montanelli's historical series, and some other historical books
about the Risorgimento and the Fascist period. Right now I'm reading
Corrado Augias (hope I have his name right) "I segreti di Roma". I'm
enjoying it quite a lot.

I hope before long to be able to read Dante, but so far it's a bit too
difficult for me.

I'm open to suggestions for books that every Italian should have read.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006, B Vaughan wrote:

As poetry, it strikes me as a bit pedestrian. Sort of like Walt

As a poetry, I might agree ...

Probably you learnt "one if by land two if by sea" instead.
I think that was out of fashion by the time I went to school. We had
to memorize things ...

.... in fact I was talking of history, not literature, and more of the
sort of history one is taught in primary school.

I'm trying to read those books that every Italian is supposed to have
read. So far I've read "Pinocchio" (in Italian, of course), "i
Promessi Sposi", the complete short stories of Pirandello, some short
stories by Svevo, "il Gattopardo", and a few others.

Hmm well I guess it depends on the age, and whether you mean things one
should have read at school, or things one should have read by oneself.

For instance il Gattopardo (despite the story being 1860) was published
(postumous) only in the '60s of 1900. So it was considered "contemporary
literature" when I went to school. Maybe now is a sort of classic.
Quite pleasant however.

Pinocchio (and Cuore by De Amicis, and the adventures by Salgari) were
common books read by young children at home, not at school. I guess
modern children will consider them quite out of date (specially Cuore).

Reading in primary and middle school at my times including various
pieces of poetry from 1800-1900 (Carducci, Pascoli and minor poets),
pieces from Promessi Sposi (I actually read that when I was 11 during an
holiday near Lecco, just on the spot, before I had to read it at
school), and some other stuff from 1800 (Verga's "I Malavoglia") or
mid-1900 (for instace Silone's "Fontamara").

High school has proper literature courses, with Dante, Boccaccio,
Petrarca, then Ariosto, Tasso, then Foscolo, Leopardi, Manzoni. You will
note more poetry than novels.

I hope before long to be able to read Dante, but so far it's a bit too
difficult for me.

I find Dante's language more close to the modern one than most of the
classical authors listed above despite they came later.

I'm open to suggestions for books that every Italian should have read.

Well, it depends whether you want just to consult a school program, or
take your pick according to your taste. Maybe you'd like Calvino.

I can surely advise to read Umberto Eco in italian, that should be fun
even if you've already read it in translation.


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On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:22:32 +0200, Giovanni Drogo
wrote:

I find Dante's language more close to the modern one than most of the
classical authors listed above despite they came later.

That could well be true, but it's still a bit too difficult for me. I
have started the Commedia several times, and often do well for a bit,
especially the bit I've read before. Even if I don't understand every
word, I understand what's going on and appreciate the beauty of the
language. Then I come to a page where I don't even know what they're
talking about, and have to look up many words in the dictionary and
it's no longer enjoyable. I've been thinking that maybe I should get a
school edition that has helpful notes for the sorts of things a
sixteen year old Italian wouldn't understand either.

I'm open to suggestions for books that every Italian should have read.

Well, it depends whether you want just to consult a school program, or
take your pick according to your taste. Maybe you'd like Calvino.

I've read something of his, but I don't remember what.

I can surely advise to read Umberto Eco in italian, that should be fun
even if you've already read it in translation.

I always read his columns in L'Espresso.

--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006, B Vaughan wrote:

That could well be true, but it's still a bit too difficult for me. I
have started the Commedia several times, and often do well for a bit,

Surely you should not start from Paradise ... Dante himself warns about
this : "O voi che siete in *piccioletta barca, desiderosi d'ascoltar,
*seguiti dietro al mio legno che cantando varca, non vi mettete in
*pelago che forse, perdendo me, restereste smarriti" (I have noted with
an (*) the most uncommon words ... Oh you who are in a little [modern
italian piccola, piccoletta] boat, wishful to learn, following [but
seguiti literally is followed, an archaism] after my wood (poetic for
ship) who crosses while singing, do not put yourself to sea (pelago is
literary) because perhaps, if you lose me, you would be lost).

language. Then I come to a page where I don't even know what they're
talking about, and have to look up many words in the dictionary and

quite possible, sometimes it's the topic which is altogether medieval
and no longer understandable. Also a dictionary may not help because
some words are old, or the way they are written unusual. But still less
unusual than some other writers of the same epoch (a few months ago
Corriere della Sera distributed for free the first volume of an history
of italian literature, with several texts with explanatory notes - and
the notes were needed).

school edition that has helpful notes for the sorts of things a

that could surely help

I'm open to suggestions for books that every Italian should have read.

Yesterday I forgot to add something that, with my name and writing from
the Bastiani Fortress, I should have not, i.e. "Il deserto dei Tartari"
by Dino Buzzati.

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On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:46:10 +0200, Giovanni Drogo
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006, B Vaughan wrote:

Yesterday I forgot to add something that, with my name and writing from
the Bastiani Fortress, I should have not, i.e. "Il deserto dei Tartari"
by Dino Buzzati.

Thank you, I'm making a list!
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

Yesterday I forgot to add something that, with my name and writing
from the Bastiani Fortress, I should have not, i.e. "Il deserto
dei Tartari" by Dino Buzzati.

?

I've read that in translation, and it never occurred to me
that the fortress was meant to relate to a real place. Or
if it was, it was somewhere like the mouth of the Don. But
in any case, like Kafka's Castle, it didn't really matter.

Great book, anyway.

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