Just returned from cruise - don't get it...

"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message
nk.net...

That's exactly how I feel. None of the new ships from the mainstream
interest me whatsoever and the building boom has lost its momentum as
the new ships don't really offer anything significant. As you say, they
are just some version of something that exists in some form or another.
A few more features, balconies, alternative restaurants. Yawn. The QM2
has to remain unique for me to stay interested in her. One more, just
one more of her and she loses her unique appeal.



They build thousands of Corvettes a year, and yet they retain their unique
appeal.

I submit that it's not how few they build that gives them unique appeal, but
how unique and special they are.

--Tom

Ray Goldenberg wrote:

On 12 Jul 2004 12:04:22 -0700, (Benjamin Smith)
wrote:


So, in the tradeoff of what is beneficial to the consumer in the sense
of choice and quality vs. the shareholder you choose the shareholder
over the consumer?


Hi Ben,

It always amazes me how those that are not risking any capital want to
tell those that do risk their capital how things should be done. If
they have such a great idea then they should pool the resources of
like-minded individuals and companies and start up the business.
Cruise lines are not charities. I don't mean this as a personal slam
on you but are my opinions in general terms as far as all businesses
are concerned even travel agencies. g



Ray,

People I know start businesses out of something they want to offer
people. It's as simple as that. My wife teaches piano, had a school with
some others for awhile. Didn't find the right place and clientele. Now
she teaches on her own. One of our friends is a knitting instructor and
has a small shop in our town. She teaches classes at a very reasonable
rate, she sells yarn. She's doing well. I know many people who have
started businesses and are successful who have done it their way and
compromised little to nothing. They aren't looking to maximize profit,
they are looking to make their marque and offer products that are unique
and not run-in-the-mill-cookie-cutter-trendy-everybody-does-it types of
businesses.


As far as I'm concerned, many businesses can be this way, including
small cruise lines. If one can have a bed and breakfast with 6 rooms and
stay in business for 25 years through many types of economic up and down
periods and be booked solid and maintain the character of their product
then it *can* be done. The prices are moderate and because it is
*small*, they don't have vacancy problems. That's a big part of things.
Size of your market. Going to small towns and talking to the proprietors
of the establishments and asking them about their businesses I found
many to say that they like where they were, they established loyal
clients, they get more clients through word of mouth, they base their
offerings on the type of clients they have, they keep their prices
reasonable, most of them bought and don't rent their spaces. I'm saying
something simple. Why always expand? Why not produce a product of a
certain size, find your place to operate it, and expand when it is
natural. These small businesses aren't based on shareholder value, they
aren't public. They are based on their clients, their feel, their sense
of community, their sense of spirit. These are the types of businesses I
feel are necessary. I'm not saying there's not a place for corporations
and bringing certain standards to a mass market. I'm saying balance this
with smaller operations like mom and pop operations, moderate sized
vacation and hospitality options that don't have to follow the latest
trends. This represents choice. Big corporations in this present cruise
climate are not offering enough choices. They want a product with a
little for everyone which I think is a false premise. You can't make
something for everyone and there will always be discerning customers.
Homogenized product is a complaint being voiced by more and more veteran
cruisers.


Ben S.

Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
http://www.lighthousetravel.com

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:40:44 -0400, "E.k.R."
wrote:

Hopefully Carnival and other brands will not have to hit rock bottom in
order for cruise executives to realize that consumers want different
products to choose from, and not just a smoke screen, but real and true
differences that define a product.

Not now, Ernie, not in the majority of cruisers who make up the mass
market. The cruise industry went out and got Joe Blow off the street
by giving him a (new) product that he wanted.

Until Joe becomes more sophisticated, he won't need or get anymore
than what is available.

Anyway, the "sophisticates" are in the minority and reading RTC can
skew one to forgetting that.

Bill C wrote:

I just posed the question of "Who would like a 7 day cruise to nowhere?" on
cruisecritic the other day and out of close to 30 responses only 3 said no.
I think after you have been to the same ports over and over MOST people
would much prefer the ship to another port call of the same old place. My
wife and I love days at sea and could do a 7 day cruise to nowhere.

Bill

Yes, we've discussed this topic in earlier threads on RTC; and many,
though not all, experienced cruisers love those sea days. Although
there are currently no whitewater Caribbean cruises, I highly recommend
any of the southern (west-east) repositioning crossings that occur in
the spring. The weather is, invariably, wonderful; and all of those sea
days are sublime.

Howie

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 23:37:16 GMT, Benjamin Smith
wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, many businesses can be this way, including
small cruise lines. If one can have a bed and breakfast with 6 rooms and
stay in business for 25 years through many types of economic up and down
periods and be booked solid and maintain the character of their product
then it *can* be done. The prices are moderate and because it is
*small*, they don't have vacancy problems.

Hi Ben,

Is Oceania what you are looking for?

Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
http://www.lighthousetravel.com

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 23:37:16 GMT, Benjamin Smith
wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, many businesses can be this way, including
small cruise lines. If one can have a bed and breakfast with 6 rooms and
stay in business for 25 years through many types of economic up and down
periods and be booked solid and maintain the character of their product
then it *can* be done. The prices are moderate and because it is
*small*, they don't have vacancy problems.

Hi Ben,

Is Oceania what you are looking for?

Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
http://www.lighthousetravel.com

Tom & Linda wrote:

"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message
nk.net...

That's exactly how I feel. None of the new ships from the mainstream
interest me whatsoever and the building boom has lost its momentum as
the new ships don't really offer anything significant. As you say, they
are just some version of something that exists in some form or another.
A few more features, balconies, alternative restaurants. Yawn. The QM2
has to remain unique for me to stay interested in her. One more, just
one more of her and she loses her unique appeal.




They build thousands of Corvettes a year, and yet they retain their unique
appeal.

I submit that it's not how few they build that gives them unique appeal, but
how unique and special they are.


A luxury liesure ship is not a sports car. Two different products.

Ben

--Tom

In article et,
Benjamin Smith wrote:

The point is this one ship stands out amoung the many. If one more is
built she becomes a series ship, and loses her unique appeal.

The disconnect is that you put so much emphasis on the ships. For many
of us the emphasis is on the vacation, the experience, not what is
unique about the ship. We would want nice beautiful ships with all the
amenities. We don't care that much about unique.

--
Charles

"Cruising Chrissy" wrote in message
...
Not now, Ernie, not in the majority of cruisers who make up the mass
market. The cruise industry went out and got Joe Blow off the street
by giving him a (new) product that he wanted.

Until Joe becomes more sophisticated, he won't need or get anymore
than what is available.

Anyway, the "sophisticates" are in the minority and reading RTC can
skew one to forgetting that.


I'm afraid you are right. Most cruisers today don't even know the name of
the ship they are on, so how can I expect them to care what the actual
product is? So many just look for the lowest price on whatever itinerary
they want to sail, with little regard for the actual product. It's the same
way when consumers shop for an airline ticket. 90% of the decision is based
on price alone, regardless of the airline. The other 10% is based on the
schedule and any frequent flyer benefits.

I think the problem today is that when the average cruiser decides to step
up to a premium line, they will soon discover it's not really any different
then a mass-market line. Most of it is a smoke screen but the actual
experience is essentially the same.

Ernie

"E.k.R." wrote:


Hebridean has the nicest brochures I have ever laid eyes on. In fact I
have
been keeping them for years as they are just too beautiful to throw away.
Get ready for a little sticker shock Ben, Hebridean makes Silversea and
Seabourn look cheap! Remember all prices are in Pounds. Ouch! Even if
they were in US dollars they would be VERY expensive.

I first learned of Hebridean Princess and the line from Luxury Link auction,
quite by accident from a Google search for something. I didn't bid, and
didn't find out what the cruise cost ultimately was. Has anyone here ever used
Luxury Link?
I would love to know the experience you may have had with them.