Chirac refuses to give up his necktie!

Earl wrote:

{ snip on Chirac }

He is also smarter than Bush

With the exception of some particularly primitive species of bacteria ...
who isn't ?

In article , 127.0.0.1
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:54:41 GMT, John Bermont
wrote:



Earl wrote:


Next, he and some others are not going to attend Reagan`s funeral.
They see this as a "mise en scene" political event which is designed
to aid Bush's electoral campaign and they want to stay clear.

I see the funeral differently and am sorry that Chirac did not spend
another day here to bit adieu to President Reagan. I'm afraid that his
absence, well noted in the media, will reinforce the poor image that
France has brought upon itself with many Americans. A little more salt
in that wound, and another tit for tat. Chirac behaved rather childish.
John Bermont

chirac showed his true anti american colors again, why is anyone
surprised?

There are even French commentators expressing concern.

This will be very poorly received by the American population.. very
poorly received.

jay
Fri Jun 11, 2004






---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because of the current email spam attacks my email account is not included,
reply via the newsgroups or ask for a valid email address.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:07:55 -0400, 127.0.0.1 wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:54:41 GMT, John Bermont
wrote:



Earl wrote:


Next, he and some others are not going to attend Reagan`s funeral.
They see this as a "mise en scene" political event which is designed
to aid Bush's electoral campaign and they want to stay clear.

I see the funeral differently and am sorry that Chirac did not spend
another day here to bit adieu to President Reagan. I'm afraid that his
absence, well noted in the media, will reinforce the poor image that
France has brought upon itself with many Americans. A little more salt
in that wound, and another tit for tat. Chirac behaved rather childish.

I don't think Americans vote in French elections. Attending a social
event or not is his prerogative.

I am sure you are right that this won't play all that well in US
conservative circles. But then at the end of the day, this mostly
reveals a rather childish attitude in these circles. The inferiority
complex thing. As usual. Which got Bush elected and led to the Iraq
mess.

chirac showed his true anti american colors again, why is anyone
surprised?

Not attending an old fart funeral, anti-American? Anti-Reagan at best.

Especially since the jerk has in effect been mostly dead for some ten
years.

On 11/06/04 13:54, in article , "John
Bermont" wrote:



Earl wrote:


Next, he and some others are not going to attend Reagan`s funeral.
They see this as a "mise en scene" political event which is
designed
to aid Bush's electoral campaign and they want to stay clear.

I see the funeral differently and am sorry that Chirac did not spend
another day here to bit adieu to President Reagan. I'm afraid that his
absence, well noted in the media, will reinforce the poor image that
France has brought upon itself with many Americans. A little more salt
in that wound, and another tit for tat. Chirac behaved rather childish.
John Bermont

The State funerals are complicated things, often political.

Truman did not have one, nor Nixon. Johnson did. That funeral did not
make up for
the Johnson years, and Truman, who left office with a low public
rating
went on to be rated one of the best Presidents in history. He needed
no state funeral.

Who politically needs a state funeral in Reagan`s case?

Since Reagan left the Presidency there has been a big push to iconize
him
much as Roosevelt was. The push to do that is political and in fact
the iconization of Roosevelt and the New Deal was one reason the
Democratic Party had held power for so long. So iconization pays off.
The Republicans would like to do the same thing. There is some problem
there too since some conservative Republicans have essentially told
Bush "you are no Reagan". Evidently.

Next, Bush particularly needs news which is going to take the war
and torture off the front page. He also wants to borrow prestige from
Reagan
and establish himself as the natural heritor.

Chirac decided not to get entrapped in this kind of thing. Putin is
sending
Gorbachev in a neat ploy. It was Gorbachev who got the Nobel Peace
Prize
not Reagan. So that upstages that issue a bit by the Russians. They
(and most historians) will claim that the USSR fell apart without
bloodshed
from natural political and economic forces. It was the
"inconsistencies"
that Marxist often talk about that did Russian communism in. Note
that
similar inconsistencies never did the Chinese in and Castro remains in
power!

NATO forces did not tear down the wall, nor did Reagan, the people
did.
And Gorbachev helped a bit too although he did not want to.

Chirac was not involved with Reagan during the Reagan's Presidency.
So he has
no natural reason to be at the funeral. Mitterand was responsible
for foreign policy at the time Reagan was in power. At Mitterand`s
death the Americans sent Gore. So tit for tat except that
the French have no Vice-President.


Earl

Here is a report of Mitterand's funeral, where both wife and mistress
showed
up and Mitterand's natural daughter. A class act. High mass for an
agnostic!

Mitterand and Reagan were both great snake oil salesmen.
Bush lacks that a bit.

*******

Adieu, Mitterand

The French bid a sorrowful farewell to a leader who bestrode the
European stage By THOMAS SANCTON Paris

Francois Mitterrand would have savored the mise-en-scene--in fact, he
scripted it himself. According to his final wishes, the former French
President was buried last week in his hometown of Jarnac following a
simple family Mass in the village church where he was baptized 79
years ago. That was the private Mitterrand, native son of the
southwestern provinces, deeply rooted in the traditions and folkways
of the cognac-producing Charente region. "I was born a
provincial," he once said, "and I intend to die a provincial."

At the same moment in Paris, a multitude, including 60 heads of
state, crowded into Notre Dame cathedral to hear a high Mass for the
departed leader. Thousands more jammed the esplanade outside, many of
them clutching red roses, symbol of Mitterrand's Socialist Party.
That was the public Mitterrand, the international statesman, the
republican "monarch" who for 14 years had embodied the French nation
as he bestrode the European stage.

Those simultaneous images seemed to unify the two facets of one of
France's most complex and controversial personalities. In Jarnac,
under a steady drizzle, Mitterrand's wife Danielle and two sons stood
side-by-side with the ex-President's natural daughter Mazarine and his
longtime mistress Anne Pingeot. At Notre Dame, meanwhile, French
politicians of the left and right joined together with such
diverse leaders as Boris Yeltsin, Fidel Castro, Yasser Arafat, Shimon
Peres, Al Gore, Prince Charles and Helmut Kohl, Mitterrand's friend
and main European partner, whose tears betrayed a personal grief that
surpassed his political loss.

The night before the funeral, crowds converged on the Place de la
Bastille, site of Mitterrand's 1981 victory celebration, for a
candlelight vigil under an immense portrait of the former President
standing at a podium, seemingly waving goodbye. The high point was a
taped replay of his final national address in office when he was
already near death from prostate cancer. "I believe in the forces
of the spirit," said Mitterrand, a declared agnostic, "and I will
never abandon you."

Across all of France, moreover, the powerful outpouring of emotion and
respect that followed Mitterrand's death gave testimony not only to
the length of his rule but also to his place alongside Charles de
Gaulle as a towering French leader of the postwar era. Above all,
Mitterrand was remembered for his strong commitment to Europe, his
abolition of the death penalty and his demonstration that the Fifth
Republic could survive the transfer of power from right to left.
He was also the man who refurbished France's glory, raising its
international profile, promoting its culture and endowing its
capital with $6 billion worth of resplendent architectural projects.
Neo-Gaullist President Jacques Chirac, who had often denounced the
Socialist leader and twice run against him, delivered one of the most
eloquent and moving tributes in a TV address. "I would like to salute
the memory of the statesman, but also pay homage to the man in all
his richness and complexity," he said. "His choices were clear,
and he always made them in the name of his idea of France."

Though doubtless sincere on a personal level, Chirac's praise was not
devoid of political purpose. Sagging badly in the polls following
last month's crippling and divisive strikes, he sought to remind his
countrymen of the grandeur of the presidency and of the need for unity
and sacrifice in facing some daunting challenges. It was difficult
not to see irony there, since many of Chirac's present troubles stem
from Mitterrand's failure to prepare the public for the unpopular
budget-slashing reforms that his successor must now carry out.

---the rest can be seen at

http://www.time.com/time/europe/time...nce960122.html

(Earl) wrote:

NATO forces did not tear down the wall, nor did Reagan, the people
did.

I'm glad somebody else noticed that.

And Gorbachev helped a bit too although he did not want to.

The collapse of the USSR and its satellite system was probably a bit
more of a change than Gorbachev intended, but I think that he had a
sincere intention to modernise and liberalise, and no stomach for
repressive measures.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

I wonder why not attending a Bush event is suddenly anti american. Even
being anti Reagan isn't necessarily anti american. It could be viewed
as pro american.

127.0.0.1 wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:54:41 GMT, John Bermont
wrote:

Earl wrote:

Next, he and some others are not going to attend Reagan`s funeral.
They see this as a "mise en scene" political event which is designed
to aid Bush's electoral campaign and they want to stay clear.

I see the funeral differently and am sorry that Chirac did not spend
another day here to bit adieu to President Reagan. I'm afraid that his
absence, well noted in the media, will reinforce the poor image that
France has brought upon itself with many Americans. A little more salt
in that wound, and another tit for tat. Chirac behaved rather childish.
John Bermont

chirac showed his true anti american colors again, why is anyone
surprised?

Go Fig wrote:

In article , 127.0.0.1
wrote:


On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:54:41 GMT, John Bermont
wrote:

Earl wrote:

Next, he and some others are not going to attend Reagan`s funeral.
They see this as a "mise en scene" political event which is designed
to aid Bush's electoral campaign and they want to stay clear.

I see the funeral differently and am sorry that Chirac did not spend
another day here to bit adieu to President Reagan. I'm afraid that his
absence, well noted in the media, will reinforce the poor image that
France has brought upon itself with many Americans. A little more salt
in that wound, and another tit for tat. Chirac behaved rather childish.
John Bermont

chirac showed his true anti american colors again, why is anyone
surprised?


There are even French commentators expressing concern.

This will be very poorly received by the American population.. very
poorly received.

jay
Fri Jun 11, 2004


Then it may well be well received by the anti shrub majority.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:18:19 +0100, Padraig Breathnach wrote:

(Earl) wrote:

NATO forces did not tear down the wall, nor did Reagan, the people
did.

I'm glad somebody else noticed that.

And Gorbachev helped a bit too although he did not want to.

The collapse of the USSR and its satellite system was probably a bit
more of a change than Gorbachev intended, but I think that he had a
sincere intention to modernise and liberalise, and no stomach for
repressive measures.

More to the point, he was smart enough to recognize the writing on the
wall. You don't fight a lost battle.

And if that's the situation, you might as well wrap it up in the best
possible colors. Hence the talk about "reforms, modernizing," and
"no stomach for repressive measures."

Maybe even GW, in the same situation, would have found himself religion
and he might also have talked about no stomach for torture and other
repressive measures, who knows?

In article , Earl
wrote:

On 11/06/04 13:54, in article , "John
Bermont" wrote:



Earl wrote:


Next, he and some others are not going to attend Reagan`s funeral.
They see this as a "mise en scene" political event which is
designed
to aid Bush's electoral campaign and they want to stay clear.

I see the funeral differently and am sorry that Chirac did not spend
another day here to bit adieu to President Reagan. I'm afraid that his
absence, well noted in the media, will reinforce the poor image that
France has brought upon itself with many Americans. A little more salt
in that wound, and another tit for tat. Chirac behaved rather childish.
John Bermont

The State funerals are complicated things, often political.

They are always a political event.


Truman did not have one, nor Nixon. Johnson did. That funeral did not
make up for
the Johnson years, and Truman, who left office with a low public
rating
went on to be rated one of the best Presidents in history. He needed
no state funeral.

Who politically needs a state funeral in Reagan`s case?

Since Reagan left the Presidency there has been a big push to iconize
him
much as Roosevelt was. The push to do that is political and in fact
the iconization of Roosevelt and the New Deal was one reason the
Democratic Party had held power for so long. So iconization pays off.
The Republicans would like to do the same thing. There is some problem
there too since some conservative Republicans have essentially told
Bush "you are no Reagan". Evidently.

Next, Bush particularly needs news which is going to take the war
and torture off the front page. He also wants to borrow prestige from
Reagan
and establish himself as the natural heritor.

Chirac decided not to get entrapped in this kind of thing. Putin is
sending
Gorbachev in a neat ploy. It was Gorbachev who got the Nobel Peace
Prize
not Reagan. So that upstages that issue a bit by the Russians. They
(and most historians) will claim that the USSR fell apart without
bloodshed
from natural political and economic forces. It was the
"inconsistencies"
that Marxist often talk about that did Russian communism in.

So why didn't it happen in 1960 or 1976 or even 1980 ?

Do you think an opinion of Eduard Shevardnatze might be important, he
was the Russian Foreign Minister at the time ?

At the time of Reagan, it was commonly reported that Russia was
spending about 10% of her annual wealth on defence. Do you know what
the post 'Cold War' audit revealed about what their true expenditure
was ?

Have you read what Gorbachev has said about both the Pershing II and
'Star Wars' and even the firing of the Air Traffic Controllers?


Note
that
similar inconsistencies never did the Chinese in and Castro remains in
power!

What % of GNP were these spending on defence ?


NATO forces did not tear down the wall, nor did Reagan, the people
did.
And Gorbachev helped a bit too although he did not want to.

Humm, did the Government of Germany give a piece of the wall to
Gorbachev ?

What other leader called for it to come down so forcibly ?



Chirac was not involved with Reagan during the Reagan's Presidency.
So he has
no natural reason to be at the funeral. Mitterand was responsible
for foreign policy at the time Reagan was in power. At Mitterand`s
death the Americans sent Gore. So tit for tat except that
the French have no Vice-President.

Was Clinton, at the time, enjoying the beaches of the S. of France ?


jay
Fri Jun 11, 2004





Earl

Here is a report of Mitterand's funeral, where both wife and mistress
showed
up and Mitterand's natural daughter. A class act. High mass for an
agnostic!

Mitterand and Reagan were both great snake oil salesmen.
Bush lacks that a bit.

*******

Adieu, Mitterand

The French bid a sorrowful farewell to a leader who bestrode the
European stage By THOMAS SANCTON Paris

Francois Mitterrand would have savored the mise-en-scene--in fact, he
scripted it himself. According to his final wishes, the former French
President was buried last week in his hometown of Jarnac following a
simple family Mass in the village church where he was baptized 79
years ago. That was the private Mitterrand, native son of the
southwestern provinces, deeply rooted in the traditions and folkways
of the cognac-producing Charente region. "I was born a
provincial," he once said, "and I intend to die a provincial."

At the same moment in Paris, a multitude, including 60 heads of
state, crowded into Notre Dame cathedral to hear a high Mass for the
departed leader. Thousands more jammed the esplanade outside, many of
them clutching red roses, symbol of Mitterrand's Socialist Party.
That was the public Mitterrand, the international statesman, the
republican "monarch" who for 14 years had embodied the French nation
as he bestrode the European stage.

Those simultaneous images seemed to unify the two facets of one of
France's most complex and controversial personalities. In Jarnac,
under a steady drizzle, Mitterrand's wife Danielle and two sons stood
side-by-side with the ex-President's natural daughter Mazarine and his
longtime mistress Anne Pingeot. At Notre Dame, meanwhile, French
politicians of the left and right joined together with such
diverse leaders as Boris Yeltsin, Fidel Castro, Yasser Arafat, Shimon
Peres, Al Gore, Prince Charles and Helmut Kohl, Mitterrand's friend
and main European partner, whose tears betrayed a personal grief that
surpassed his political loss.

The night before the funeral, crowds converged on the Place de la
Bastille, site of Mitterrand's 1981 victory celebration, for a
candlelight vigil under an immense portrait of the former President
standing at a podium, seemingly waving goodbye. The high point was a
taped replay of his final national address in office when he was
already near death from prostate cancer. "I believe in the forces
of the spirit," said Mitterrand, a declared agnostic, "and I will
never abandon you."

Across all of France, moreover, the powerful outpouring of emotion and
respect that followed Mitterrand's death gave testimony not only to
the length of his rule but also to his place alongside Charles de
Gaulle as a towering French leader of the postwar era. Above all,
Mitterrand was remembered for his strong commitment to Europe, his
abolition of the death penalty and his demonstration that the Fifth
Republic could survive the transfer of power from right to left.
He was also the man who refurbished France's glory, raising its
international profile, promoting its culture and endowing its
capital with $6 billion worth of resplendent architectural projects.
Neo-Gaullist President Jacques Chirac, who had often denounced the
Socialist leader and twice run against him, delivered one of the most
eloquent and moving tributes in a TV address. "I would like to salute
the memory of the statesman, but also pay homage to the man in all
his richness and complexity," he said. "His choices were clear,
and he always made them in the name of his idea of France."

Though doubtless sincere on a personal level, Chirac's praise was not
devoid of political purpose. Sagging badly in the polls following
last month's crippling and divisive strikes, he sought to remind his
countrymen of the grandeur of the presidency and of the need for unity
and sacrifice in facing some daunting challenges. It was difficult
not to see irony there, since many of Chirac's present troubles stem
from Mitterrand's failure to prepare the public for the unpopular
budget-slashing reforms that his successor must now carry out.

---the rest can be seen at

http://www.time.com/time/europe/time...nce960122.html

John Bermont wrote in message ...
Al wrote:

(Earl) wrote in message om...

Chirac may refuse to give up his necktie but I did
a long time ago.

Those visiting Paris and eating at fairly upscale restaurants
will not find the men wearing neckties. Paris is not a very
formal city. I would not go to a top place (*** Michelin) without
a coat and tie, however. On rare occasions in the winter
I will wear a tie, or have a scarf around my neck!

In official circles, however, people wear them and Chirac showing up
in "formal attire" must have frosted Bush (see photo at web site
given below).


That was the first day when the G8 leaders were tooling around in dune
buggies - and Chirac looked ridiculous compared to the others who
weren't overdressed. He has since lost his tie.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news...4/10beach.html

This morning MSNBC showed Chirac sitting tieless with Bush and laughing
at whatever Bush was saying. Is Bush that amusing?

Probably not, but the French like Jerry Lewis. Bush probably told
Chirac that Hussein is telling all and that there's a camera on him.