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CyberFlying???



 
 
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  #51  
Old October 24th, 2011, 02:41 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Fly Guy
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Posts: 193
Default Air travel - carrying excess of $10k or equivalent (was:CyberFlying???)

Robert Neville wrote:

But in reading those stories, it's clear that the US gov't is
pulling out all the stops to rob both citizens and foreigners
alike when they return to the US with large amounts of legal
money.


People seem to be lumping separate money related issues into the
same bucket.


What makes air travel entering or leaving the US any different than car
travel between states?

Why does the US federal gov't have an interest in whether or not you are
bringing or leaving the country with more than $10k any more than a
state gov't would want to know the same thing?

There are already reporting rules on the bank pertaining to depositing
large sums (coincidentally $10k) into any US bank.

If possession of cash or cash equivalent is legal (and the last time I
checked - it was) then how can you justify a rule requiring you to tell
the gov't how much you have on your person IN ANY SITUATION WHERE YOU
ARE FORCED TO INTERACT WITH THE GOV'T ?

If the gov't believes that you are in possession of the proceeds of
crime, then the onus is on them to investigate, arrest and charge you -
AND YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT. Why is that right somehow
magically erased at the airport?

If you lie about bringing into the country controlled substances, parts
of endangered animals, or you exceed your personal duty-free limit, then
they can go crazy-nuts on you all they want.

But I don't see what constitutional leg they have to stand on by forcing
you to admit, upon penalty of complete forfeiture, how much cash or
cash-equivalent you are bringing into or out of the country.

Clearly they are catching innocent people that want to insure their
financial well-being while temporarily in the US, and not people
couriering or laundering drug money. $10k isin't a lot of money these
days.
  #52  
Old October 24th, 2011, 05:24 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default CyberFlying???

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

No they're not.


Yes, they are. Read the regulation. The only exceptions made by the regulation
are hearing aids, portable voice recorders, heart pacemakers, and electric
shavers.

I've already provided the references to the regulations in question. Look them
up.

AFAICT airlines prohibit electronic devices during
takeoff and landing, but during cruise you may use them.


I've already explained why this happens--it is largely due to an Advisory
Circular issued by the FAA. I gave the reference. Look it up.

Mobile phones
can be used in flight mode, which translates to all transmitting
functions (typically GSM, bluetooth, WLAN) off.


Yes, but a phone in that mode is not a cell phone in the context of the FCC
regulation, so it is permitted.

American regulations are immaterial for most of the world.


Then why are you arguing about them?
  #53  
Old October 24th, 2011, 05:25 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default CyberFlying???

tim.... writes:

Obvioulsy, but why is that regulation there.


I've explained why. At one time there was a concern that gadgets could
interfere with avionics. That is not a problem today, and perhaps never was
outside of some very unusual circumstances, but the regulation remains.
  #54  
Old October 24th, 2011, 05:28 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default Using electronic devices during take-off and landing (was: CyberFlying???)

Fly Guy writes:

Does anyone ever post such chatter - along with their "cyberflying"
videos?


Sometimes, on airlines that provide ATC communication on one of the IFE audio
channels. I believe United does or has done this. It makes the video much more
interesting.
  #55  
Old October 24th, 2011, 08:54 AM posted to rec.travel.air
DevilsPGD[_3_]
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Posts: 79
Default CyberFlying???

In message someone claiming to be Wolfgang
Schwanke typed:

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

DevilsPGD writes:

Then why are you allowed to use many electronic devices during the
flight, including those that transmit and receive (on some flights)?
Do all onboard electronics suddenly become certified?


Technically, all portable devices are prohibited for the entire
flight.


No they're not. AFAICT airlines prohibit electronic devices during
takeoff and landing, but during cruise you may use them. Mobile phones
can be used in flight mode, which translates to all transmitting
functions (typically GSM, bluetooth, WLAN) off.


This doesn't apply either on a number of flights (think in-flight wifi,
which by definition requires wireless transmission and reception)

--
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to
steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.
  #56  
Old October 24th, 2011, 11:35 AM posted to rec.travel.air
mag3
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Posts: 51
Default Cyberflying???

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 06:28:33 +0200, Mxsmanic wrote:

Sometimes, on airlines that provide ATC communication on one of the IFE audio
channels. I believe United does or has done this. It makes the video much more
interesting.


For a time, when I was flying, both United and American offered ATC. For United,
it was always "Captain's discretion." American (at the time) not only offered ATC
but also the "cockpit cam" where you could watch the flight crew at work taking off
or landing.

American stopped this somewhere in the 1990's, IIRC. United might still be allowing
"Captain's discretion" today, but now with the CO merger (CO never offered it) I'm
not sure if they do anymore. The primary concern being the airline's liability risk if
the flight crew "screws up" on the radio. There would be 100+ witnesses to the faux
pas. I recall once on UA when the captain literally "go lost" and had to ask directions
of the controller. The crap he took from the pax. upon deplaning...

____________________________________________
Regards,

Arnold
  #57  
Old October 25th, 2011, 03:13 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default CyberFlying???

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

In all flights I've been on, use of electronic devices during cruise
has been allowed. Flight mode on mobile phones was especially mentioned
by the FA.


Read the regulations and the Advisory Circular.

You mentioned domestic US regulations which are irrelevant to most of
us.


And yet you are discussing them.

That is a domestic US authority whose jurisdiction ends outside the
airspace of the United States, or roughly 97% of earth's total
airspace.


See above.

So quoting it as reference for a general statement about
commercial aviation is pointless.


So is discussing it if you are just going to call it inapplicable once you are
informed about it.

I'm not, I never mentioned them.


You've mentioned them several times above.

You're wasting my time and yours.
  #58  
Old October 25th, 2011, 03:14 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default CyberFlying???

DevilsPGD writes:

This doesn't apply either on a number of flights (think in-flight wifi,
which by definition requires wireless transmission and reception)


This is permitted because the aircraft operator (airline) has verified that
the wi-fi equipment does not interfere with aircraft systems. When the
operator does this, the electronic equipment is allowed by the regulations.
  #59  
Old October 25th, 2011, 03:15 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default Cyberflying???

mag3 writes:

The primary concern being the airline's liability risk if
the flight crew "screws up" on the radio. There would be 100+ witnesses to the faux
pas.


The liability is the same even without passengers listening in, since there is
a cockpit voice recorder.

I recall once on UA when the captain literally "go lost" and had to ask directions
of the controller. The crap he took from the pax. upon deplaning...


Pax who had never flown an aircraft, I presume.
  #60  
Old October 25th, 2011, 03:41 AM posted to rec.travel.air
mag3
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Posts: 51
Default Cyberflying???

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 04:15:47 +0200, Mxsmanic wrote:

mag3 writes:

The primary concern being the airline's liability risk if
the flight crew "screws up" on the radio. There would be 100+ witnesses to the faux
pas.


The liability is the same even without passengers listening in, since there is
a cockpit voice recorder.


True, but at least it won't result in any pax. freakin' out in flight. It only takes one
panicy passenger to start a frenzy. Besides, isn't that only a 30 min. loop?

I recall once on UA when the captain literally "got lost" and had to ask directions
of the controller. The crap he took from the pax. upon deplaning...


Pax who had never flown an aircraft, I presume.


I think pax. who simply wanted to be "alpha-hotels" ;-)
____________________________________________
Regards,

Arnold
 




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