A Travel and vacations forum. TravelBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » TravelBanter forum » Travelling Style » Cruises
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Are Cruise deals over?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old August 12th, 2004, 05:59 PM
jcoulter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are Cruise deals over?

Mason Barge wrote in
:


I guess the big TA's who can put together groups will get an even
bigger piece of the pie.

Am I correct, Peter, that a TA can put together a group and then sell
cabins retail?


Mason Barge

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please
bring me some coffee."
-- Abraham Lincoln


One can make a group call it Peter's Huge good Deal Group and then sell it
at the group price, however, the cruise lines reserve the right to restrict
the marketing of group rates. In the past this has not been a problem, they
might want to be a little more selective if they really mean what they say
in regard to pricing.

the practice that I would like to know more about is advance purchase bulk
space for resell. What are the restrictions to be on advertising that kind
of product?

  #22  
Old August 12th, 2004, 06:14 PM
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are Cruise deals over?

I haven't yet formed an opinion on whether this is good or bad. But
here are some observations that I have:

From what I read, agencies are still allowed to sell at reduced rates,
but they will lose certain benefits if they are caught doing so. If
they are repeatedly caught, they may lose the ability to sell RCCL and
Celebrity entirely. Could this be the beginning of travel agencies
having a wholly owned subsidary that only sells RCCL and Celebrity?
When the subsidary is caught enough times, it is dissolved and
reopened under another name. If that were to continually happen, I
think RCCL would get the picture and undo the new rules.

On another note, it appears to me that RCI has learned that there are
a vast number of people that know what they want (or at least think
they do) and simply want the best price. By forcing all agencies to
have the same price, more and more people may begin to book directly,
and result in RCI being able to lower the prices (or make more
profit). In my opinion, RCI's decision to do this likely had more to
do with trying to get more people to book with them directly than
protecting the mom & pop agencies.

Remeber a few years back when you had to go to a TA to get an airline
ticket? The airlines successfully removed the TA from that process.
However, I am not sure that cruiselines would be successful at trying
to do the same. After all, airlines mainly compete with other
airlines, and cruiselines compet with resorts, cultural vacations
(visiting historic places), and other vacation alternatives.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:30:20 -0400, "Jim"
wrote:

Okay, I looked into this and we even have it confirmed and it is being
discussed on our website in the RCI board. Yes it is true that prices are
fixed and agents cannot offer any rebate on their commission or sell the
cruise for less than the advertised price. Seems like there is options
available for group cruises or special pricing for special events but the
agency itself is bound by the rule of all selling at the same price and it
goes beyond just advertising. The cannot even offer a lesser price if you
talk to them on the phone. Seems very stupid on the cruiselines part and
pretty much smacks the free trade concept in the face. Here is what we are
talking about on our message boards;
http://www.cruisemates.com/MBindex/cruiselines.cfm
Jim
Community Staff Leader
Cruisemates Inc.


"Scotty" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Guido"

LAST BLAST...

It was a HUGE move by the executives at Royal Caribbean and Celebrity,

but
they have mandated that effective 8/16/04 (Monday) they will not allow

ANY
of their product to be discounted and sold below the gross cruise price

that
is available thru the cruise line itself. They have instituted big

penalties
to travel agent offenders if they are caught.

What does this mean for you? It means that if you are planning on

sailing
on
Royal Caribbean or Celebrity in either 2004 or 2005, and if you

typically
book thru and on-line agency, membership association, wholesale house,
booking engine, or any other travel agency who discounts their

commission
and "rebates" this in part to you, then you MUST book before midnight on
8/15/04. This is effective ACROSS THE INDUSTRY , not just for a few

travel
agencies!!


No Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. The agencies are not allowed to
advertise rates below the published rates. Doesn't mean they can't give
them. The genie is out of the bottle and he ain't going back in.

Scott




  #23  
Old August 12th, 2004, 07:43 PM
Cruisebyweb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are Cruise deals over?

I think there is perhaps one other angle of this that has not been mentioned.

One theory going around is that this also helps the cruise lines as well as the
"regular" travel agents. In other words, if the lines allowed the biggest of
the big to gobble up most of the market, the few remaining mega-monster
agencies would end up dictating terms to the lines, not the other way around.
That would be bad for the lines, and with reduced revenue, bad for passengers
(note "passengers", not "guests", but that is another discussion). Reduced
revenue, if reduced too low, means reduced quality onboard - food and staff
levels being obvious reductions. Ticket prices too low = something has to
give.

As a T/A, this is not the sky falling. And it is still legal to rebate (we
don't for good reasons, but our business model may not be for everybody). You
just can't advertise that. You can offer subtle hints that are generalized and
not specific (i.e. call for our best pricing, versus call us to get lower
pricing on this RCI cruise).

Regards, Keith
  #24  
Old August 12th, 2004, 07:43 PM
Cruisebyweb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I think there is perhaps one other angle of this that has not been mentioned.

One theory going around is that this also helps the cruise lines as well as the
"regular" travel agents. In other words, if the lines allowed the biggest of
the big to gobble up most of the market, the few remaining mega-monster
agencies would end up dictating terms to the lines, not the other way around.
That would be bad for the lines, and with reduced revenue, bad for passengers
(note "passengers", not "guests", but that is another discussion). Reduced
revenue, if reduced too low, means reduced quality onboard - food and staff
levels being obvious reductions. Ticket prices too low = something has to
give.

As a T/A, this is not the sky falling. And it is still legal to rebate (we
don't for good reasons, but our business model may not be for everybody). You
just can't advertise that. You can offer subtle hints that are generalized and
not specific (i.e. call for our best pricing, versus call us to get lower
pricing on this RCI cruise).

Regards, Keith
  #25  
Old August 12th, 2004, 07:55 PM
William Coleman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are Cruise deals over?

here's a quote from Bob Dickinson on one of the reasons for the policy
change.

"We're trying to get the consumer to feel comfortable that pricing isn't an
issue with Carnival. Couples can sit down at a table on the Imagination and
not worry that they paid more for the same category of cabin on the cruise
than the couple next to them."

If this is so will the price for the cruise one year out be the same as 2
months out? I doubt it. They'll have to reduce prices to fill the empty
cabins. Will CCL reduce the prices to the same level for the people that
booked one year out? I don't see this happening either.

So if that isn't the case your tablemates who booked one year out will still
have paid more than somebody booking last minute, so his reasoning doesn't
work.

As George said things have a way of working themselves out. Time will tell.

Bill
--
visit my Caribbean Princess website
www.cruisingthecaribbeanprincess.com
"Cruisebyweb" wrote in message
...
I think there is perhaps one other angle of this that has not been

mentioned.

One theory going around is that this also helps the cruise lines as well

as the
"regular" travel agents. In other words, if the lines allowed the biggest

of
the big to gobble up most of the market, the few remaining mega-monster
agencies would end up dictating terms to the lines, not the other way

around.
That would be bad for the lines, and with reduced revenue, bad for

passengers
(note "passengers", not "guests", but that is another discussion).

Reduced
revenue, if reduced too low, means reduced quality onboard - food and

staff
levels being obvious reductions. Ticket prices too low = something has to
give.

As a T/A, this is not the sky falling. And it is still legal to rebate

(we
don't for good reasons, but our business model may not be for everybody).

You
just can't advertise that. You can offer subtle hints that are

generalized and
not specific (i.e. call for our best pricing, versus call us to get lower
pricing on this RCI cruise).

Regards, Keith



  #26  
Old August 12th, 2004, 07:55 PM
William Coleman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are Cruise deals over?

here's a quote from Bob Dickinson on one of the reasons for the policy
change.

"We're trying to get the consumer to feel comfortable that pricing isn't an
issue with Carnival. Couples can sit down at a table on the Imagination and
not worry that they paid more for the same category of cabin on the cruise
than the couple next to them."

If this is so will the price for the cruise one year out be the same as 2
months out? I doubt it. They'll have to reduce prices to fill the empty
cabins. Will CCL reduce the prices to the same level for the people that
booked one year out? I don't see this happening either.

So if that isn't the case your tablemates who booked one year out will still
have paid more than somebody booking last minute, so his reasoning doesn't
work.

As George said things have a way of working themselves out. Time will tell.

Bill
--
visit my Caribbean Princess website
www.cruisingthecaribbeanprincess.com
"Cruisebyweb" wrote in message
...
I think there is perhaps one other angle of this that has not been

mentioned.

One theory going around is that this also helps the cruise lines as well

as the
"regular" travel agents. In other words, if the lines allowed the biggest

of
the big to gobble up most of the market, the few remaining mega-monster
agencies would end up dictating terms to the lines, not the other way

around.
That would be bad for the lines, and with reduced revenue, bad for

passengers
(note "passengers", not "guests", but that is another discussion).

Reduced
revenue, if reduced too low, means reduced quality onboard - food and

staff
levels being obvious reductions. Ticket prices too low = something has to
give.

As a T/A, this is not the sky falling. And it is still legal to rebate

(we
don't for good reasons, but our business model may not be for everybody).

You
just can't advertise that. You can offer subtle hints that are

generalized and
not specific (i.e. call for our best pricing, versus call us to get lower
pricing on this RCI cruise).

Regards, Keith



  #27  
Old August 12th, 2004, 08:03 PM
Dillon Pyron
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are Cruise deals over?

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:58:32 GMT, "John & Beverly"
wrote:

If this is true, it sounds like:

1. illegal price fixing


Works all the time. Check out furniture. Trying buying Thomasville
at a discount.

Price fixing would be where RCI, NCL and Carnival all got together and
agreed on a price for their offerings.


2. lots of lost business and empty ships.


We'll see. A lot depends on how the other lines react. Carnival has
already made their move, I expect NCL to be next.


I doubt the cruise lines can afford either.


They're printing money right now. I think they see this as a first
step. To what I don't know.


John
"Jim" wrote in message
.. .
Okay, I looked into this and we even have it confirmed and it is being
discussed on our website in the RCI board. Yes it is true that prices are
fixed and agents cannot offer any rebate on their commission or sell the
cruise for less than the advertised price. Seems like there is options
available for group cruises or special pricing for special events but the
agency itself is bound by the rule of all selling at the same price and it
goes beyond just advertising. The cannot even offer a lesser price if you
talk to them on the phone. Seems very stupid on the cruiselines part and
pretty much smacks the free trade concept in the face. Here is what we are
talking about on our message boards;
http://www.cruisemates.com/MBindex/cruiselines.cfm
Jim
Community Staff Leader
Cruisemates Inc.


"Scotty" wrote in message
link.net...

"Guido"

LAST BLAST...

It was a HUGE move by the executives at Royal Caribbean and Celebrity,

but
they have mandated that effective 8/16/04 (Monday) they will not allow

ANY
of their product to be discounted and sold below the gross cruise

price
that
is available thru the cruise line itself. They have instituted big
penalties
to travel agent offenders if they are caught.

What does this mean for you? It means that if you are planning on

sailing
on
Royal Caribbean or Celebrity in either 2004 or 2005, and if you

typically
book thru and on-line agency, membership association, wholesale house,
booking engine, or any other travel agency who discounts their

commission
and "rebates" this in part to you, then you MUST book before midnight

on
8/15/04. This is effective ACROSS THE INDUSTRY , not just for a few

travel
agencies!!

No Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. The agencies are not allowed

to
advertise rates below the published rates. Doesn't mean they can't give
them. The genie is out of the bottle and he ain't going back in.

Scott






--
dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.
  #28  
Old August 12th, 2004, 08:03 PM
Dillon Pyron
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:58:32 GMT, "John & Beverly"
wrote:

If this is true, it sounds like:

1. illegal price fixing


Works all the time. Check out furniture. Trying buying Thomasville
at a discount.

Price fixing would be where RCI, NCL and Carnival all got together and
agreed on a price for their offerings.


2. lots of lost business and empty ships.


We'll see. A lot depends on how the other lines react. Carnival has
already made their move, I expect NCL to be next.


I doubt the cruise lines can afford either.


They're printing money right now. I think they see this as a first
step. To what I don't know.


John
"Jim" wrote in message
.. .
Okay, I looked into this and we even have it confirmed and it is being
discussed on our website in the RCI board. Yes it is true that prices are
fixed and agents cannot offer any rebate on their commission or sell the
cruise for less than the advertised price. Seems like there is options
available for group cruises or special pricing for special events but the
agency itself is bound by the rule of all selling at the same price and it
goes beyond just advertising. The cannot even offer a lesser price if you
talk to them on the phone. Seems very stupid on the cruiselines part and
pretty much smacks the free trade concept in the face. Here is what we are
talking about on our message boards;
http://www.cruisemates.com/MBindex/cruiselines.cfm
Jim
Community Staff Leader
Cruisemates Inc.


"Scotty" wrote in message
link.net...

"Guido"

LAST BLAST...

It was a HUGE move by the executives at Royal Caribbean and Celebrity,

but
they have mandated that effective 8/16/04 (Monday) they will not allow

ANY
of their product to be discounted and sold below the gross cruise

price
that
is available thru the cruise line itself. They have instituted big
penalties
to travel agent offenders if they are caught.

What does this mean for you? It means that if you are planning on

sailing
on
Royal Caribbean or Celebrity in either 2004 or 2005, and if you

typically
book thru and on-line agency, membership association, wholesale house,
booking engine, or any other travel agency who discounts their

commission
and "rebates" this in part to you, then you MUST book before midnight

on
8/15/04. This is effective ACROSS THE INDUSTRY , not just for a few

travel
agencies!!

No Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. The agencies are not allowed

to
advertise rates below the published rates. Doesn't mean they can't give
them. The genie is out of the bottle and he ain't going back in.

Scott






--
dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.
  #29  
Old August 12th, 2004, 09:00 PM
Cruisingthe7seas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Maybe I am naive, but I think it sounds like a good idea. I would much rather
purchase a cruise through my local travel agent..everything else being the
same. I resent that every Google ad I see shouts "Discount, Discout, Discount"
when the reality is, there really isn't much of a difference in cruise prices,
just cruise marketing practices.
  #30  
Old August 12th, 2004, 09:00 PM
Cruisingthe7seas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Maybe I am naive, but I think it sounds like a good idea. I would much rather
purchase a cruise through my local travel agent..everything else being the
same. I resent that every Google ad I see shouts "Discount, Discout, Discount"
when the reality is, there really isn't much of a difference in cruise prices,
just cruise marketing practices.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruise Review, or "Best of the Best": Radisson Seven Seas' Navigator Benjamin Smith Cruises 0 June 19th, 2004 12:00 AM
Baltic Cruise August 26 2004 Brahmama Cruises 0 April 26th, 2004 03:46 PM
Travelers find unique itineraries Anchors Away Cruise Center Cruises 0 March 31st, 2004 05:44 PM
SCR Group Cruise Promotions - 09/27/2003 Steve Hennessey Cruises 0 September 27th, 2003 07:00 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 TravelBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.