"Mother, may I?"

Should you have to ask for permission from the
government before you are allowed to get on a plane?

The USA Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has
proposed that airlines cruise lines, and operators of
all other ships and planes -- including charter
flights, air taxis, fishing vessels, etc. -- be
required to get individual permission ("clearance")
from the DHS for each passenger on all flights or
ocean voyages to, from, or via the USA. Unless the
answer is ôYesö -- if the answer is "no" or "maybe",
or if the DHS doesnÆt answer at all -- the airline
wouldnÆt be allowed to give you a boarding pass, or
let you or your luggage on the plane.

Mo
http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001156.html

----------------
Edward Hasbrouck

http://hasbrouck.org

"The Practical Nomad: How to Travel Around the World"
(3rd edition, 2004)
"The Practical Nomad Guide to the Online Travel Marketplace"
http://www.practicalnomad.com

Edward Hasbrouck wrote:
Should you have to ask for permission from the
government before you are allowed to get on a plane?

The USA Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has
proposed that airlines cruise lines, and operators of
all other ships and planes -- including charter
flights, air taxis, fishing vessels, etc. -- be
required to get individual permission ("clearance")
from the DHS for each passenger on all flights or
ocean voyages to, from, or via the USA. Unless the
answer is ôYesö -- if the answer is "no" or "maybe",
or if the DHS doesnÆt answer at all -- the airline
wouldnÆt be allowed to give you a boarding pass, or
let you or your luggage on the plane.

Mo
http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001156.html

----------------
Edward Hasbrouck

http://hasbrouck.org

"The Practical Nomad: How to Travel Around the World"
(3rd edition, 2004)
"The Practical Nomad Guide to the Online Travel Marketplace"
http://www.practicalnomad.com

I wouldn't mind if the person denied boarding was compensated by TSA on
the same schedule as an airline denial. They could have a walk on the
denial if the person is actually convicted of a terrorist offense.

In message Edward Hasbrouck
wrote:

Should you have to ask for permission from the
government before you are allowed to get on a plane?

The USA Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has
proposed that airlines cruise lines, and operators of
all other ships and planes -- including charter
flights, air taxis, fishing vessels, etc. -- be
required to get individual permission ("clearance")
from the DHS for each passenger on all flights or
ocean voyages to, from, or via the USA. Unless the
answer is ôYesö -- if the answer is "no" or "maybe",
or if the DHS doesnÆt answer at all -- the airline
wouldnÆt be allowed to give you a boarding pass, or
let you or your luggage on the plane.

Mo
http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001156.html

Sounds perfectly reasonable. To do any less would be to let the
terrorists win!

(Any bets on whether the 9/11 flights would have gotten the OK?)

All that aside, I'd say it's yet another reason to not travel to or
through the US.

--
Going to church doesn't make you a christian any more than
standing in a garage makes you a car.

DevilsPGD wrote:

Mo
http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001156.html


Sounds perfectly reasonable. To do any less would be to let the
terrorists win!


I thought that by doing this, we let the terrorists win.

DevilsPGD wrote:
Sounds perfectly reasonable. To do any less would be to let the
terrorists win!

Oh FFS! Do you bend over and take it up the ass too? Bush and his
asshole cronies will erode every single personal freedom we have until
we have none whatsoever.

To quote Ben Franklin:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-L.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 02:51:51 GMT "Frank F. Matthews"
wrote:

:Edward Hasbrouck wrote:
: Should you have to ask for permission from the
: government before you are allowed to get on a plane?

: The USA Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has
: proposed that airlines cruise lines, and operators of
: all other ships and planes -- including charter
: flights, air taxis, fishing vessels, etc. -- be
: required to get individual permission ("clearance")
: from the DHS for each passenger on all flights or
: ocean voyages to, from, or via the USA. Unless the
: answer is ôYesö -- if the answer is "no" or "maybe",
: or if the DHS doesnÆt answer at all -- the airline
: wouldnÆt be allowed to give you a boarding pass, or
: let you or your luggage on the plane.

: Mo
: http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001156.html

:I wouldn't mind if the person denied boarding was compensated by TSA on
:the same schedule as an airline denial. They could have a walk on the
:denial if the person is actually convicted of a terrorist offense.

I would think that leftists and Europeans would like this rule.

As it is right now, when the terrorist supporter is detected on the flight
while it is in the air, the plane can either turn around and let him free, or
land at Bangor (or whatever the west coast equivalent is) take the suspect
into custody, etc., etc.

I would support such payment only if the person went into a US embassy well in
advance, gave his particulars, was told that he was OK (might take an amount
of time that can be measured by a calendar), and then he was given the hassle
- unjustly.

--
Binyamin Dissen
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 01:40:55 -0000, Edward Hasbrouck
mangled uncounted electrons thus:

Should you have to ask for permission from the
government before you are allowed to get on a plane?

The USA Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has
proposed that airlines cruise lines, and operators of
all other ships and planes -- including charter
flights, air taxis, fishing vessels, etc. -- be
required to get individual permission ("clearance")
from the DHS for each passenger on all flights or
ocean voyages to, from, or via the USA. Unless the
answer is ôYesö -- if the answer is "no" or "maybe",
or if the DHS doesnÆt answer at all -- the airline
wouldnÆt be allowed to give you a boarding pass, or
let you or your luggage on the plane.

Mo
http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001156.html

Uh-huh. Yet another reason why tourism to the US from Europe is
going to suffer yet another hit. There comes a point at which the
hassle, inconvenience and lack of personal data security just
makes a trip to the Land of the Free simply isn't worth it any
longer...

Martin D. Pay
I've never met a US citizen that I didn't like, on a one-to-one
level. The US government, on the other hand... @_@

On 18 Oct 2006 01:36:39 -0700, "-L."
mangled uncounted electrons thus:


DevilsPGD wrote:
Sounds perfectly reasonable. To do any less would be to let the
terrorists win!

Oh FFS! Do you bend over and take it up the ass too? Bush and his
asshole cronies will erode every single personal freedom we have until
we have none whatsoever.

To quote Ben Franklin:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Damn right. We have a similar problem in the UK, with the
National Identity Card Scheme that's about to be foisted on us.
Which is why I'm going to forgo international travel from 2008,
when my passport expires, as I refuse to renew it if the price is
a compulsory ID card as well.

Martin D. Pay
Uncle Joe would have loved the ways we're devising of monitoring
our citizens 'for the common good'. (There is no practical
difference between a right-wing totalitarian regime and a
left-wing totalitarian regime except the excuses they use.)

On 18 Oct 2006 01:36:39 -0700, "-L." wrote:


DevilsPGD wrote:
Sounds perfectly reasonable. To do any less would be to let the
terrorists win!

Oh FFS! Do you bend over and take it up the ass too? Bush and his
asshole cronies will erode every single personal freedom we have until
we have none whatsoever.

One more reason you should read a whole post and not just the first
sentence. And punctuation marks carry meaning, too.

DaveM

In message .com "-L."
wrote:


DevilsPGD wrote:
Sounds perfectly reasonable. To do any less would be to let the
terrorists win!

Oh FFS! Do you bend over and take it up the ass too?

Did you read the entire post? That *woosh* sound you hear was the joke
going straight over your head.

--
Don't you hate rhetorical questions?