Europe's airlines and airports question flight bans

In message , at 17:20:00 on Mon, 19
Apr 2010, Buddenbrooks remarked:
If there is no way to detect the ash, where are the maps of airborne
ash coming from?

Not from instruments normally fitted on board domestic aircraft.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:20:00 on Mon, 19 Apr
2010, Buddenbrooks remarked:
If there is no way to detect the ash, where are the maps of airborne ash
coming from?

Not from instruments normally fitted on board domestic aircraft.

Well indeed but aircraft fly routes determined by ground control.

"Buddenbrooks" wrote in message
...

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:20:00 on Mon, 19 Apr
2010, Buddenbrooks remarked:
If there is no way to detect the ash, where are the maps of airborne ash
coming from?

Not from instruments normally fitted on board domestic aircraft.

Well indeed but aircraft fly routes determined by ground control.

OK, it can't be seen with enough certainty by ground equipment either. But
even if it could, by the time that the plane had got to the bit which it was
told was clear that could have changed. So only real time detection is
safe.

tim

In message , at 17:53:52 on Mon, 19
Apr 2010, Buddenbrooks remarked:
If there is no way to detect the ash, where are the maps of airborne
ash coming from?

Not from instruments normally fitted on board domestic aircraft.

Well indeed but aircraft fly routes determined by ground control.

Not to the degree of granularity required, while several layers of ash
blow around - that's the whole point. All they'll be doing when it
"clears" is flying through very clear blocks of airspace. Like they were
from Scotland for a while.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:53:52 on Mon, 19
Apr 2010, Buddenbrooks remarked:
If there is no way to detect the ash, where are the maps of airborne
ash coming from?

Not from instruments normally fitted on board domestic aircraft.

Well indeed but aircraft fly routes determined by ground control.

Not to the degree of granularity required, while several layers of ash
blow around - that's the whole point. All they'll be doing when it
"clears" is flying through very clear blocks of airspace. Like they were
from Scotland for a while.


Maybe. I hope that there is some serious research into aircraft
instrumentation and ground assessment following this.
We appear to be entering icelands volcano season over the next few years.

Buddenbrooks wrote:

Maybe. I hope that there is some serious research into aircraft
instrumentation and ground assessment following this.
We appear to be entering icelands volcano season over the next few years.

How much more are you prepared to pay for your ticket?

--
William Black

"Any number under six"

The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.

Buddenbrooks writes:

Well indeed but aircraft fly routes determined by ground control.

No, aircraft fly routes chosen in advance by their operators or pilots.

Surreyman writes:

And they're doing that.

Which means that they declared everything was fine before doing that.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Buddenbrooks writes:

Well indeed but aircraft fly routes determined by ground control.

No, aircraft fly routes chosen in advance by their operators or pilots.

Please let me know which ones, so I can avoid them. Try flying into
America or China or Russia on a self chosen route.

tim.... wrote:
"Buddenbrooks" wrote in message
...
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:20:00 on Mon, 19 Apr
2010, Buddenbrooks remarked:
If there is no way to detect the ash, where are the maps of airborne ash
coming from?
Not from instruments normally fitted on board domestic aircraft.
Well indeed but aircraft fly routes determined by ground control.

OK, it can't be seen with enough certainty by ground equipment either. But
even if it could, by the time that the plane had got to the bit which it was
told was clear that could have changed. So only real time detection is
safe.

tim



See http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/

The volcanic ash predictions are basically no different from weather
forecasts - they're based on computer models of the wind direction.
Actual measurements aloft of the ash concentration require specially
equipped aircraft with laser measurement devices such as operated by the
DFVLR.
Like you say, the concentration of ash at any time and place is a
continuously moving target, so the measurements essentially confirm the
presence and quantity of ash and substantiate and validate the computer
simulations.

T.